Chaos Rising Part 3

[colls]

Welcome to our third of four check-in and discussion posts for our Book of the Month.

This month’s book is Chaos Rising by Timothy Zahn
Part 3: Chapter 13 - Chapter 18

Chaos Rising Part 3

1. Outside the Chaos, the Clone Wars are raging. How are they going to tie the Galactic Republic happenings in the Chiss Ascendancy?

2. What are your thoughts about Thalia's meeting with the family patriarch?

3. The author is being pretty clear that Thrawn isn't politically savvy, despite being tactically intelligent. Do you think we will see his political missteps come to a head this book or over will it unravel over the course of the trilogy?

4. Any predictions for how the book will end?



FYI - There's no need to answer all (or any) of the questions above - they're just talking points to get us started. Informal chatter is more than welcome! In-person book clubs often veer off topic, it's okay if we do as well. :)
All I ask is that you try to avoid spoilers for things past Part III of the book.

Comments

[colls]

1. The minute Thrawn and Che'ri encountered the droids and it seemed they'd make contact with 'Lesser Space' and the Clone Wars were going on I thought "Wouldn't it be funny if Anakin just showed up?" The next page.... BAM! There he was. Heh. I have no idea who the scout, Duja, was though. I'm not sure if the book will explain or if she's someone I'm already supposed to recognize.

2. Thalia's story has gotten a bit more interesting. I'm sorry to see her so tied up with her main purpose to her family being to watch over Thrawn, but I suppose it gives her a bit of plot armor for the time being.

3. Maybe Thalia will provide the political support Thrawn needs to survive whatever is going to happen with the families.

4. R2 is going to save someone's ass. Not sure who (Padme? Thrawn? Che'ri?), but he's been saving asses since 1977 and hasn't disappointed me yet.

[barbiejedi]

I have no idea who the scout, Duja, was though.
That whole section was a connection to the second Thrawn book Zahn wrote for the modern canon, Thrawn: Allegiences. It really threw me for a loop to see that connection being made, because I was sure that this book would be staying entirely in Chiss space.


Maybe Thalia will provide the political support Thrawn needs
Oooo, I like this idea-- thus far he hasn't had much support from his own family (have any of them ever shown up when he's gotten in trouble for anything in the Memories sections? somehow I only remember the narration specifically noting the absence of any Mitth representatives) so it would be neat to see her fill that role.

[astromech1138]

I have feelings about this section!! Good ones ;)

1. Outside the Chaos, the Clone Wars are raging. How are they going to tie the Galactic Republic happenings in the Chiss Ascendancy?

THIS was something that made me stop in my tracks. That damn N-1 Naboo starfighter keeps making cameos lol (Or another Naboo ship--I admit I'm not really up to speed on prequel-era references.) I was not expecting Anakin to show up. Aside from the other references by the Chiss to the Clone Wars, it hadn't really occurred to me that they were happening contemporaneously. I'm not sure I like or hate Anakin appearing in the middle of this story. On the one hand, I was really enjoying reading about events that have nothing to do with Jedi/the Skywalker saga. On the other hand, Zahn will eventually need/want to explain how Thrawn came to work for the Empire. Part of me wishes that Thrawn had run into someone less...prominent, but I trust him as a writer so I'm excited to see where this goes.

How the Clone Wars are going to tie into the developing threat to the Chiss Ascendancy...that's going to be interesting. I'm guessing that'll be a major portion of the next two books?

Thrawn's and Che'ri's reactions to Anakin's surname were interesting. I guess we're not going to solve that riddle yet!

2. What are your thoughts about Thalia's meeting with the family patriarch?

I loved this section, and her plan--it shows her as someone intelligent and resourceful apart from Thrawn. I'm really curious about her role going forward, because to me this section signaled that she suddenly has a lot more agency than she once did.

3. The author is being pretty clear that Thrawn isn't politically savvy, despite being tactically intelligent. Do you think we will see his political missteps come to a head this book or over will it unravel over the course of the trilogy?

I feel like there isn't enough time, since Thalia thwarted his opponent's plan by taking the Trials. But who knows what Zahn is setting up!

4. Any predictions for how the book will end?

Strong connections between Anakin and Thrawn will develop, paving the way for Thrawn to join the Empire. It will be interesting to see how Thrawn's relationship with Anakin changes as the latter becomes Vader. When Thrawn does leave the Ascendancy (or is forced to leave), major betrayals are in store...

It was very interesting to learn that Thrawn's sister was a sky-walker! I wonder if anything more will be made of that.

[barbiejedi]

Zahn will eventually need/want to explain how Thrawn came to work for the Empire
The first Thrawn book of the new canon handled Thrawn's "discovery" by the Empire and how he was folded into the system, but it's been a while since I read it and I can't remember if it delved into the whys and hows of him leaving the Chiss. I'm expecting that the last book in this trilogy will set it all up more neatly.

I'm a little flummoxed as to why Zahn added the Thrawn-meeting-Anakin bits to this book/trilogy, honestly, because I thought it had already been dealt with in the three previous Thrawn books and that these were going to be more focused on Chiss space than areas controlled by the Republic/Empire.


Thrawn's sister was a sky-walker!
I was also super intrigued by that! Or that at least Thrawn believes she was taken to be a sky-walker. He says that his parents refused to tell him where she went, and that he only made the sky-walker assumption when he was promoted to bridge-officer rank and learned about them. It's entirely possible that he'll turn out to be wrong-- it would certainly be a heck of a twist.

[astromech1138]

Oh that is super interesting to know, re: Thrawn/Empire! I guess I'm confused, too, now, why Thrawn meets Anakin in this book, if it's not to set up how he joins the Empire. Maybe Zahn is succumbing to the Disney effect (i.e. cameos galore) ;)

[barbiejedi]

1. This part of the book stopped me cold and I had to go back to the second book of the first modern canon Thrawn trilogy, Thrawn: Alliances to double-check-- this conversation is a retelling of a scene from that book, but from Thrawn's perspective this time. (In the previous book, it was from Anakin's.) It felt a bit weird to be reminded that there was a whole other book happening in the time that Thrawn and Che'ri were gone. I also had to refresh my memory of what Thrawn got up to via Wookieepedia, because I didn't have the time to reread the whole thing. XD

2. I'm glad that Thalias got to get out from under the merit adoptive thing and establish herself as trial born, to remove that bit of leverage over her. It was interesting to see that it was actually the Patriarch, rather than General Ba'kif, who identified Thrawn as someone to be pulled in as a merit adoptive-- and then I got all confused again, because I was certain that General Ba'kif would have been a former Mitth family member, but the Patriarch calls him Labaki and THAT is definitely not a Mitth name. I don't have the faintest idea which family he'd have come from and why he'd be doing so much work on behalf of the Mitth, and I hope it comes up later in the trilogy.

3. Much as I'd love it to get him in trouble in this book, I'm betting it doesn't properly play out until the climax of the 3rd book, just because it seems like it's being signposted pretty obviously but not urgently, and we've only seen a few minor ways that it's affected his career.


It's still driving me a little bananas that Thrawn is referred to as Mitth'raw'nuru in all the Memories sections and Mitth'raw'nuruodo in the Chapters. In Legends, I don't think there was ever any systematic explanation of Chiss naming conventions, and now that Zahn's the only one doing Ascendancy stuff he gets to lay it out however he likes without having to worry about what other writers have done. I really want to know what the -odo is about, and I'm guessing it's going to happen in one of the last Memories sections before they catch up to the Chapters in time.

I suppose we can also assume that Thrawn never gets promoted high enough in the military that he's removed from his family, otherwise we'd be calling him... Raw'nuru at some point? Just doesn't sit right. :P

[kittywhite]

1. I’m guessing this will play into Thrawn’s eventual exile somehow.

2. I really liked it, it was cool to know she’s got a greater purpose plus it shows that Thrawn isn’t perfect. His weakness has been spotted but at least he has allies looking out for him.

3. It has to end up happening because he eventually ends up with the Empire but I think that will happen in the third book. There’s only a few chapters left...unless he reallllyyy stuffs up. Thrawn, please don’t blow up a planet ok???

4. I know it’s sappy but I want to see Thalias and Che'ri reunite, I’m sure Thalias will be proud of her performance whilst away with Thrawn and her new developing skills!

[brokenmnemonic]

1. I've not seen the Clone Wars series (other than the episodes from earlier in this comunity read) and I'm fuzzy on the geography, so I'm a bit surprised that Thrawn met Anakin. Was Anakin often out in the back end of the galaxy? It doesn't feel like the Chiss Ascendancy was particularly far from the edge of Chaos? Thrawn doesn't seem particularly interested in events outside the Chaos, which makes me wonder about those piece of art we saw earlier from races the Chiss have never met and only know of from, salvaged art/objects. What kind of bleed-through of Republic/Empire events, culture, trade and people is there into the Chaos? I want to know more :P

2. The Patriarch seemed oddly pleasant for someone who's been controlling one of the big families for a long time. I liked seeing that Thalia's capable of finding her own way out of difficult situations (assuming that she wasn't being manipulated at the orders of someone like the patriarch to push her in aparticular direction) but is she destined to have her plotlines all be about looking after other people?

3. I'm honestly a bit surprised that Thrawn is continually being presented as oblivous to politics, given that we've heard so much about his ability to analyse cultures from their artwork and from that work out how to manipulate them invarious ways, particularly tactically. Why would someone who can do that have such a huge blind spot? Unless he's deliberately chosen to act that way, so as to generate certain responses, perhaps?

4. In Fire. No, wait, that was Babylon 4. I think this book is about Thrawn convincing people that the Ascendancy is under threat from the Benevolent-Symbiote-Carrier and their growing empire, as a set up for Thrawn's allies/superiors trying to fight in defiance of the Ascendancy's rules in the next book. I'm guessing the third in the trilogy will be something like Thrawn saves the Ascendancy but gets exiled for it...